Schrodinger Dead Characters

[chacusha]

Writing my Pinocchio canon promo and writing about Lampwick reminded me that I need to finish a mini fandom meta piece I've been meaning to write up for a really long time.

Basically, late in high school and during college, I got into three things: (1) I played Soulcalibur for the first time (Soulcalibur II), (2) I finished playing Sword of Mana, and (3) I watched Pinocchio for the first time (at least, at an age old enough that I actually watched/remembered the whole thing).

These three canons actually share something in common, which is that, well, I got unreasonably attached to a particular character who made it to the end of the story alive, but who I later found out died in a different version of canon!

Let me go through these one by one:


Sword of Mana: The first time this happened to me was with Sword of Mana -- in this game, I got really attached to Willy, the main hero's gladiator buddy, who is also (in this game) the main heroine's childhood friend (they grew up in the same Mana Clan village). (Kind of predictable -- monk characters in video games are always my faves for some reason!) In the hero's opening, Willy shows the hero a way out of the gladiator cells, thereby helping the hero escape, although he himself gets caught. He's also one of the support characters the heroine gets over the course of the game. He takes part in the final battles and ends up living on after the heroine becomes the new Mana Tree (in the epilogue that ends the game, he's shown freeing the other Mana Clan women from Count Lee's manor).

Sword of Mana is a remake of the Gameboy game Final Fantasy Adventure, so after finishing Sword of Mana, I wanted to play Final Fantasy Adventure and see how it was different or the same. The experience was basically:

(One minute after the opening crawl)
Willy: (dies)
Me: Wait... WHAT?!

So yeah, uh... in the original game (after a short boss battle), the story basically opens with a mortally injured Willy urging the hero to restore Mana to the world or something, before he dies and traumatizes the hero...


Pinocchio: So during/after college, when I got really into Pinocchio and was writing fanfiction for it, I thought, "Hey! Maybe I should try reading the original book to get some ideas about how to write this fic." I thought that maybe the book might say something interesting about Lampwick. In the movie, Lampwick transforms into a donkey and runs off, and then you never hear anything else about him. It was something that always bothered me -- I always wanted to know what happened to Lampwick and the other boys, and was curious if, in the book, Pinocchio ever ended up encountering Lampwick again.

Well uh... the good news is yes, he does! In the book, after Pinocchio rescues Gepetto from the belly of the whale (shark), Gepetto is very weak and Pinocchio spends some time tending to him. He goes begging for food at a nearby farm and sees a dying donkey and recognizes him. Pinocchio asks who he is and the donkey replies that he is Lampwick... and then dies.

Um... Well I guess I know what happened to Lampwick now! The bad news is that, well, he died.

This case is a bit less clear-cut than in the Sword of Mana case, where Willy definitively survives in one version of canon but dies in the original; here, Lampwick is fate unknown in one adaptation (although alive the last time you see him, albeit a donkey) and dead in the original.


Soulcalibur: Finally, Soulcalibur: one of my favorite characters in this game series is Maxi. It's hard to pick a favorite because the cast is so big, but I definitely have a soft spot for him. (Unsurprisingly, his weapon type (nunchaku) is also very monk-like, so he's a monk character in my heart. ♥)

Maxi's ending in the first game I played (Soulcalibur II) is pretty normal -- a happy ending where he gets everything he wants: he avenges his crew and gets his memories back (yeah, he's an amnesiac in this game, for some reason, who has forgotten his two BFFs, Kilik and Xianghua).

But then in 2005, I played Soulcalibur III where all characters are given two endings: a no-input "bad" ending and a successful-input "good" ending (based on a mechanic from Soul Edge). In one of Maxi's two endings, he just, like, unceremoniously dies (lol); in the other, he survives and then the adventure continues. Of course, this made me go back to look at his ending from Soulcalibur I, which is the game where he first appeared (he did not appear in Soul Edge). And then I discovered that his ending is VERY similar to his SCIII "bad end": he dies in Kilik's arms and then Kilik throws his nunchuks into the sea. WTF! He just dies in his own ending in the game that introduced him?! In line with his other endings, Maxi's SCIV ending also isn't particularly promising, and what happens to him in the end is left rather ambiguous (but strongly mirrors the "he died" language from SCI). But then in SCV, which takes place 17 years after SCIV, Maxi is alive and kicking (albeit somewhat corrupted by evil energy that slows his aging). (SCVI takes place at an earlier point in the timeline, well before the main traumatizing events that kick off Maxi's friendship with Kilik and his "journey to the West" with Kilik and Xianghua, so I'm not counting that game as having an "ending" for Maxi in it.)

So yeah, it's a bit of a mixed bag here. I didn't realize this initially, but Maxi has a history of it being teased that he might get killed off between games. I mean, I doubt the game-makers will actually kill Maxi off, because this is a fighting game series, and people who main that character will come after you with pitchforks if you dare cut them from the roster in the next game... But still, given the types of endings he gets in these games, I do fear a little bit that a new Soulcalibur game will come out and reveal in its in-game biographies that Maxi died several years ago or something, for the sake of drama. XD

Again, this case is not as clear-cut as the other two examples as you can never really trust fighting game story mode endings until the next game comes out, but I consider this case close enough to count as a character being Schrodinger dead (and me only finding out about this by playing a game *after* the one I first played).

So yeah, this keeps happening to me: If I had a nickel for every time I got unreasonably attached to the hero's male, devil-may-care, best friend who went through traumatizing experiences along with the hero, only to find that in another version of canon, said best friend did NOT make it through the story but rather died in the hero's arms... Well, I would have three nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that's happened so many times...

Anyway, I was wondering if you know of any characters like this, where it's possible to go through the whole story under the belief the character survived, only to find they died in another version of the story -- characters who live in one version of canon but die in another. And if you consumed the one where they lived *first* and then got blindsided by their fate in a different version. I wonder if the experience is very different when the order is swapped (you're expecting the character to die and are like "huh, interesting choice" when they survive); I feel like I must have experience with that too, but for some reason, these three examples always stick out in my mind when it comes to these "Schrodinger dead" characters, maybe because it's more memorable that way. Do you find you tend to latch onto these characters who have a habit of maybe-dying in canon, or that those kinds of characters don't really stand out to you?

EDIT: Oh man, I kept feeling there was another example of me knowing a character should die and being surprised when they didn't, but I couldn't think of it. But I finally remembered -- it's actually the opposite: Mild spoiler warning for Magic Knight Rayearth, but I read the manga first, and then I watched the anime. In the anime, Presea dies once she gives the main trio their new weapons/armor. Having read the full manga, though, I was like "Mm, well, that's an... interesting choice..." because I knew Presea would be plot-relevant later. And then I later read that the anime dealt with this problem by... introducing Presea's twin sister, Sierra! Lmao, amazing. Great save.

Comments

[breyzyyin]

Hmm...this is a really interesting question! I can't really think of too many experiences where I've seen this happen personally, save for in cases where a story's canon changes drastically depending on circumstance and time.

For example, I read X-Men comics quite a bit and their recent Krakoa story arc made a commentary on "comic book deaths" in general where characters would die in one issue and come back thanks to a "magic system" of sorts set into the series (Ms. Marvel is probably one of the biggest examples of this, as they killed off to have her come back as a mutant instead and negate her Inhuman origin story for...reasons 0_0;). Another example of this is Thunderbird, an X-Man who was introduced when the original team was rebooted way back and characters like Storm, Banshee, and Wolverine were added to the roster. He dies on that first mission (much to many people's displeasure), but years later is brought back thanks to the Krakoa storyline. Blink was originally supposed to be added to the Generation X original lineup but was killed off on their introductory story arc in a moment of self-sacrifice because she wasn't used to her powers (thus explaining why a team of mutant youngsters training was needed), but a version of her during the Age of Apocalypse storyline survives into the original Marvel timeline and becomes a recurring character. Oddly enough, if I go back to the Inferno story arc or Phoenix...Maddie and Jean were meant to be killed off for good respectively after those incidents, but Jean later on gets revived and the Goblin Queen gets brought back years later for a sorely needed (and much appreciated) redemption arc during Krakoa. I hadn't yet read New Mutants so I wasn't fully aware of Magik's roles in the comics beforehand...so I mostly remember Magik as a little girl dying from (and ultimately succumbing to) the Legacy Virus in a really powerful story arc. She does get brought back somehow later on as her teenaged warrior self, but it was awhile in-between those instances so I thought it was really interesting when they did bring her back. Then again, comic books are infamous for doing this sort of thing.

Same with Dragonball. ...Though Dragonball does some interesting things with canon setup, such as the whole Future Trunks plotline where so many of the characters died tragically and he goes back to try and save them from that fate. I have to admit, Piccolo and Vegeta both sacrificing themselves at times for children they care for still is emotional despite the whole "they're going to come back later" angle given how much plot development for them it shows from their initial introductions.

For games, I can only think of a few RPG examples. I was really attached to Pohl in Suikoden II as a nice kid who befriends the main character under extreme circumstances, and his death later on trying to protect a younger child from a murdering tyrant is incredibly traumatic. Given that Suikoden casts are huge, I just kind of...expected him to be a permanent party member at some point and it just doesn't happen. The same can be said of Ted (and knowing he dies later on and seeing him in the prequel about a hundred years earlier in Suikoden IV with the caveat that it would be some time before he met his "one true friend" in Tir just really hit you in the feels) and Odessa from the original Suikoden game and Sialeeds from Suikoden V. In Final Fantasy Tactics, I was not prepared at all for the tragic death of Delita's sister given initial story setup...and the subsequent murder of Ovelia during the end-game credits traumatized me the first time I played the game. On the other hand, I was pleasantly shocked when I found out that Valmafra gets spared despite Delita acknowledging her status as a spy. I also will always hold a special place in my heart for dear Vivi in Final Fantasy IX. I had honestly just assumed at the end that they would figure out how to save him, so when the ending monologue happens...it hit me hard.

Fighting games are a bit more interesting because so few of their deaths actually stick (as of right now, Tekken is even preparing to bring Heihachi back and I thought his death was going to be pretty permanent in the seventh game). They either just retcon the story where they died, or go with a palette swap character (Gen from Street Fighter Alpha is a prime example of this as he is terminally ill and dies in all of his game endings for that subseries and they stick once Alpha is done, though one can argue he is later changed out for his nephews Yun and Yang, or the original King from the first two Tekken games being replaced by one of the orphans he helped raise from the third game onwards/Michelle being replaced by Julia/the Eddy and Christie choice/Raven and Master Raven...dang, Tekken does it a lot 0_0;). About the only example I can think of with a character who died and stayed dead in fighting games for a relatively long while (to the point where I thought she would stay dead as a plot device character after her initial game appearance save for the non-canon Tekken Tag games) is probably Jun Kazama from the second Tekken game. They "replaced her" with her son Jin and niece Asuka, but neither of those characters shared quite the same movesets as her so it wasn't really palette-swapping (Jin was more of a hybrid character, and Asuka evolved into her own unique character). It wouldn't be until Tekken 8 that Jun would make her grand entrance again into the main storyline (kudos to them for also showcasing a still gorgeous and kick-butt lady in her forties at least! XD), so for a very long time most people assumed she was going to be dead for good. I loved her as a main in the second game, so this was quite the pleasant surprise for me! :)

...That was a long winded way of saying that I have gravitated towards similar characters in the past, and have even had the opposite situation where I knew of the death and then saw a later canon with them "living on" afterwards. It's a neat way to reflect on characters and stories, thank you for the fun prompt! ♥

[chacusha]

Oh yeah, Schrodinger dead characters are everywhere in comics. XD I would say that the longer a comic character exists, the probability that they will become Schrodinger dead approaches 100%, where they're definitely dead in one run but alive in another!

And yeah, same with fighting games. These are some fun examples -- I like hearing about a fighting game character who dies in all of his endings, and all the non-permanent deaths and replacements in Tekken. I'm a bit surprised and not surprised they brought Jun back in Tekken 8 -- surprised because her death/disappearance seemed pretty plot-relevant to me? (And also yeah, the tendency to write women out of fighting games when they become middle-aged. :'D) But not surprised because fighting game characters rarely stay dead forever. XD

Thank you for sharing the examples!

Spoilers for The Last of Us (first game and S1 of show)

[rionaleonhart]

This is a really interesting post! I spent a while trying to think of an example of a character in a similar situation from one of my canons, and it was a long time before it hit me: Bill from The Last of Us.

I haven't actually seen the television adaptation of The Last of Us yet, and what I've heard about Bill's treatment in it actually might be part of the reason. I don't even particularly care about Bill in the original game! But hearing about his death in the show really put me off, mainly because of the nature of his death (I have a lot of issues with depictions of suicide as a beautiful and romantic thing), but also because... look, The Last of Us already kills off a disproportionate number of its minority characters. It really stood out to me, in the first game, that all the black characters died and most of the white characters survived. You didn't have to revise history so the only living gay male character died as well.

Re: Spoilers for The Last of Us (first game and S1 of show)

[chacusha]

Ooh that's an interesting one! I was going to say, when trying to come up with some more examples of Schrodinger dead characters, I FELT there should have been a few older canons with gay characters that pulled a "bury your gays" move back in the 80s/90s/etc., and then when they were being remade or rebooted, the maker decided to avoid falling into that trope by deciding to keep the gay person alive this time. But I couldn't think of any examples! But then with The Last of Us TV show, it's the opposite -- a reverse bury-your-gays! I guess the consolation is that Bill in the show had a happier life than game!Bill did. It's a bit weird that I can't think of any examples going in the other direction, though, where the gay character actually gets to live.